Faculties & Forums General Discussion

The recent controversy over the anti-road pricing petition on the 10 Downing Street website was hailed by opponents as proof that the concept is unworkable in the UK. However, it was very noticeable that the arguments for road pricing were largely overlooked. How can the two extremes be brought closer together, if at all?

Trevor Whelan wrote:

 However, it was very noticeable that the arguments for road pricing were largely overlooked.

 Really? What were they then?!?

Have you had a look at the Road Capacity & Charging Forum page on the Institute's web site yet?

There are some reports on there that you might find interesting.

Yes, it was very tongue in cheek. My point is that any new form of road pricing will be seen by the majority as just another tax for the government, no matter how they dress it up with green issues etc.

What also needs to be taken far more seriously is the mobility of labour, far less people work within easy reach of their jobs by public transport. I would not be able to do my job by using public transport, and I run my own business from home. When I do visit clients (about 2 days a week) I would find it impossible to get to visit more then one client in a day by using it. We now live and work in a society where we need to be mobile, the days of everyone working within a stones throw from their homes are long gone. Couple that with the high cost of housing and you get a situation where people have to live where they can afford to and travel to their place of work.

 Public transport is just not viable for many people, and personally I detest it. I have successfully avoided most forms of it for the last 8 years, the closest I get is an aircraft or a ferry, I refuse to use trains or busses as they are overpriced and just a plane horrid way to move around.

What ever of the methods that is introduced we can be sure of one thing, it will cost us more! 

Stuart is right, regional policy for generations has encouraged out of town housing and the need for mobility. Public transport has decayed to near non-existence (last bus service from my village cancelled this month, and the dependence on private transport therefore greater than ever. Rather than relying on expensive high tech road charging systems that probably won't work properly, even if any political party risks the consequences of introducing them, we should be looking more seriously at reducing the need to travel (IT solutions - tele-commuting, video & data links etc; more intelligent regional development; provision of local services including schools, hospitals;...) and public transport options in our "post industrial" society. If we could manage these things, congestion would not be a problem, whereas road charging on it's own won't reduce congestion, just make life more expensive! 

Keith Perry wrote:

Stuart is right, regional policy for generations has encouraged out of town housing and the need for mobility. Public transport has decayed to near non-existence (last bus service from my village cancelled this month, and the dependence on private transport therefore greater than ever. Rather than relying on expensive high tech road charging systems that probably won't work properly, even if any political party risks the consequences of introducing them, we should be looking more seriously at reducing the need to travel (IT solutions - tele-commuting, video & data links etc; more intelligent regional development; provision of local services including schools, hospitals;...) and public transport options in our "post industrial" society. If we could manage these things, congestion would not be a problem, whereas road charging on it's own won't reduce congestion, just make life more expensive!

 Public transport is actually a viable option for plenty of journeys - it is there and people choose not to use it.

 "High tech" solutions actually encourage travel - people who work at home and only need to travel into the office two or three days a week are more likely to live further from work.  People will commute further if they're not doing the journey every day.

 Road user charging does have the potential to reduce congestion.  Hopefully it would concentrate people's minds on how they use their car.  Private transport is too cheap anyway, I don't have a problem with it being more expensive.  Ever increasing car use and ownership is not sustainable.

The point about "out of town housing" is an interesting one.  Transport policy aimed at facilitating fast inter-urban car travel has equally encouraged out-of-town housing and longer distance commuting.  Its also fair to say there's an element of individual responsibility, its not all down to policy makers.  A lot of people choose to live somewhere that makes them heavily reliant on the car, they could equally choose somewhere to live that means catching the bus or cycling to work is an option. 

Stuart wrote:

Public transport is just not viable for many people, and personally I detest it. I have successfully avoided most forms of it for the last 8 years, the closest I get is an aircraft or a ferry, I refuse to use trains or busses as they are overpriced and just a plane horrid way to move around.

 Equally, public transport (and walking/cycling for that matter) IS viable for quite a large number of journeys.  Artificially cheap private transport where only the marginal cost is considered does make public transport appear expensive.  Bus and train fares have continually risen over time whilst the cost of private motoring has remained static.  Is it that public transport is over-priced, or is it that the car is vastly under-priced?

If the Government were truly concerned with reducing road traffic, why are we ripping up former green belt land to build thousands of new family homes in rural areas with no public transport, no schools, no hospitals and no jobs?

The people who will buy these homes won't be choosing "to live somewhere that makes them heavily reliant on the car", just choosing to live somewhere available that they can afford.

It's easy to assume that someone else's journey is unnecessary, but I've yet to meet anyone that admits their journey. Yes, road charging may reduce congestion, but without radical changes in other fields, not least public transport, this would be at a huge social cost.

There are many contributory factors to the problem of congestion, and the problem won't go away until all the causes are addressed. Price rationing of road use is not on its own a sufficient solution, however convenient it may seem.